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Posted by Doug T on July 04, 2001 at 11:54:30:
In Reply to: Re: Does this bother anybody else besides me???ME-I'm Him! posted by Norman on July 03, 2001 at 18:15:01:
Hi Norm
I'll just throw a few things to ponder. There really aren't any species level snakes around that are close enough genetically to cross with D.c.couperi. There are plenty of Drymarchon corais subspecies (which you can already keep legally in Florida) that could be hybridized with couperi. However, the Endangered Species Act doesn't recognize Hybrids at the subspecies level so you couldn't get a permit and nobody could sell you one. It therefore will never be, as you called, "a fine marketable alternative".
We already do look down our collective noses at collectors of wild indigos. They're called poachers. We want them arrested.
As to Boa and Python fans getting in a huff about hybridizing the two, if hybridizing boas with pythons were possible, it would have been done. It isn't genetically possible.
There are several subspecies of Drymarchon that would make a better substitutes than a hybrid because they ARE indigos. Scroll down a little in the forum and you can check out the picture of Brutis, Dean Allesandrini's Texas Indigo. Go to www.indigosnakes.com and you can see a bunch of pictures of the other subspecies whose main difference with Dc couperi is the color.
From a business viewpoint, As a breeder of indigos, I could sell my snakes to people in 90% of the states in the U.S.A. and every other country in the world that allows importation. That's a pretty big market. It would be much easier and profitable for me to stick with the highly sought after Indigo than a hybrid.
I also would never put a female of another species with a male indigo. He would devour her. My female indigos wouldn't get introduced to males of other species because I'd make more using her to produce purebreds.
Hybrids also have a pretty poor track record in the herp industry. Look at how prices for Diamond X Carpet pythons have plummeted now that Diamond pythons are being bred regularly. An indigo x species hybrid would have little to no market value as purebred specimens are being produced commonly.
My final thought is that this isn't a common species in the wild. Since Florida is being eaten up by developers, it's obvious the real threat is loss of habitat. As more and more of the last bits of Eastern Indigo habitat are paved, fewer and fewer Indigos will be able to survive in the wild. Our captive gene pool, unlike other commonly kept species, is EXTREMELY valuable. Hybridization is a real threat to the survival of the species.
Since I don't believe it's possible to cross indigos with other species, I'm not really worried about it. I do think it is something to talk about and I'm glad you brought up the subject.
Doug
: I'm the guy who wrote that post! Boy you guys sure get uptight about your snakes! There should be a clear separation from wild snakes and those produced in herptoculture. The idea is to eventually look down our collective noses at those who are still fieldcollecting. I see the hybrids as a fine marketable alternative, a legitimate cottage industry where no one gets hurt, provided some nut doesn't try to establish a wild colony of some creation. I'm sure the idea of crossing boas and pythons gets the boa and python fans in a huff just like the mention of your precious indigos bothers you. I do happen to love Indigos, I stupidly and illegally kept them as a youngster(I'm now 40) as I live in Florida. I wish I could keep them but because of selfish idiots such as myself in my youth, we can't! I justified it as a youngster because I loved them so much, I would never hurt one,etc. I remember the day I caught one as being my grand prize, the tops of my field collecting history. That was over twenty years ago now. I don't go "snake hunting" anymore thanks to the advances in herptoculture. If someone could produce some legal Indigo cross, I'd probably love them too! Sorry dude!!
