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Posted by pyrotek2k on February 06, 2003 at 16:54:39:
In Reply to: Re: LONG comment posted by HDEAN on February 06, 2003 at 16:38:12:
... that your comments are right on the ball as far as logic and wisdom about this scenario go.
I don't really consider myself on side A or side B, or stradling both, just a "spectator", though I am walking towards the game with 2 snakes reaching sexual maturity this year, and 4 more the next year. I have considered the things that you have expressed, and came to the same general conclusion, but you have worded it out better than I have ever had it, even in my mind, so I just felt like "commenting"/supporting your view.
:::So you guys are arrogant enough now to go from "man made unnatural hybrids are ok" to "man made unnatural hybrids should be the only snakes produced in captivity"?
::It's amazing what you can justify in your mind when you think about it hard enough and making money is involved, isn't it?
:I read his post and don't see anything about hybrids should be the only thing produced. Must have missed that one.
:***As far as the money making aka GREED comment:
:I have never have understood this one. Anyone selling a snake whether pure or a hybrid is wanting money for it. A Snow Honduran, a Piebald Ball Python, a hybrid albino Blairs/Ruthveni all cost money. Does a hybrid albino Blairs-Ruthveni cost more than a normal non local Blairs , sometimes yes, but a pure Piebald Ball Python and a pure Snow Honduran also cost more than a normal colored one also. It is called supply and demand. If someone hybridizes a snake to make something different and therefore it creates a demand for something in short supply then he is no more guilty of so called GREED than the Piebald or Snow producer is. They are producing a product and selling it for money. I would say that for the most part a breeder that hybridizes does so for the potential beauty , maybe only in his eyes, of the hybrid than say someone going out and buying the next hot pure snake. How many times on the forums do you read someone saying, what is the next hot snake morph coming out and do you think this is a good investment. Hybridizers I feel fall more in the category of Corn snake Morph keepers, than investment snake breeders. By this I mean they both are seeing what they can produce by mixing up the parent stock. Nothing wrong with either but I don't see hybrids as a big money maker if a money maker at all.
:***As far as the unnatural man made comment:
:This is another common comment used against hybrid breeders. It fits all breeders, pure and hybrid.
:As far as MAN MADE We both take snakes from the wild, house them artificially, whether in a sweater box or a natural looking cage (not truely natural since you can never duplicate ALL the exact natural enviroument they really live in, ex:humidity, sounds, smells, interactions with other animals, light, seasons, rainfall, etc), make decisions when they will eat, what they will eat, how much they will eat, what mate they get to breed and how often and then select usually through visual observations the offspring we will raise up for future reproduction. This is often based on attractiveness and or pattern or abnomallies and usually never what a truely natural enviroument would allow to survive.
:As far as Non Natural anything we do is natural. Sitting here at this computer is natural since we, humans, are animals, in nature and how can anything I'm doing not be natural. As bizzarre as this is going to sound, the atomic bomb is natural. Not a good thing maybe for sure but still natural. Can one truely say developing a car, driving it to Texas and field collecting Graybands, sometimes illegally, bringing them home to a man made brick house or highrise apartment, putting them in a plastic sweater box setup where a hundred such boxes can be kept, keeping it warm with electrical heat tape and feeding them home raised mice sometimes even frozen and thawed out and then breeding them when they are ready is natural yet if I then take that same male and breed it to a Corn snake it is all of the sudden unnatural. I think not.
:I for one can respect opinions based on actual reasons even if it just as basic as you don't like them or feel there may be a problem with mis identified offspring several sellers later. These are valid arguements. I can't understand the most mis used reasons such as Playing God, Greed, Unnatural, etc when they apply to same person making the comment. When asked what the comment maker breeds I rarely ever see that since that opens them up to the same arguement he is using against the hybrid breeder.