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Re: Just to be perfectly clear....

[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ The Horned Lizard Forum ]

Posted by Les4toads on August 27, 2002 at 18:55:39:

In Reply to: Just to be perfectly clear.... posted by Pennebaker on August 27, 2002 at 00:15:02:

:I'm not saying that termites cannot be a beneficial element of an HLs diet, just that feeding too many or as a staple is bad for their longterm health. You are still feeding ants so that is good.
:Termites can indeed give HLs beneficial nutrients but that does not mean that they should be fed termites as a staple or as anything other than a supplement to ants. The point to be taken is that while termites can provide extra calories that are not present in ants, this does not mean that they should be frequently fed termites. Just as you should not eat french fries and ice cream at every meal, an HL should not eat termites everyday.
:HLs will eat many things that are bad for them. In nature, this potentially unhealthy propensity is equalized by their staple of ants. Feed ants as a staple and termites as a supplememt to the ant staple and your HL will be much healthier for it.
:Believe it or not, i really do not want to get nasty on this forum. Show a little respect and have some humility that is befitting your experience. My initial post was not so emotionally charged as to warrant your brash obstinance. You have had short-term success feeding HLs termites and that is all. Do not start preaching about how termites are the next wonder-food for HLs or that they can be used instead of ants and we will not have any further conflicts.


::Who i am is no business of yours. As for my knowledge, i believe it speaks for itself from the numerous posts i've made just on this forum and by the animals i work with.
::Sorry, but crickets are not termites. Just as a cricket isn't ant and an elephant isn't a cow. I don't feed my HLs crickets except for occasional treats, which is how termites should be fed.
::I've been working with HLs for over 25 years, probably well before you were ever concieved. When your HL was 'small', she probably only ate termites because she was kept-in unnatural conditions and fed inappropriate prey items, which essentially started bad feeding habits and palate. Your HL may be fat and appear healthy, but chances are your are shortening her life SIGNIFICANTLY by feeding her lots of termites.
::Don't listen to me, or to Lester, and do your own thing. Just don't expect help or sympathy when your HL gets sick and dies! I've been reading your barely legible posts ever since you started on this forum and listened to you carry-on about how ants are not needed. I've bit my tongue long enough for the likes of you.

::::who are you and how much knowlage do you have of the newtrition of termites. they are the next best thing to ants. about the only thing they are missing is formic acid. so if you want to talk about faty foods than look at a cricket. a termite is nothing like a cricket. i wood also like to know how much knowlage you have with hl. because with an answer like that i don't thank you have any. when my horned lizard was small she would not eat any thing but termites.
::::If i put you on a diet of deep-fried fat and cream, then you would REAL FAT, real quick. Of course your HL is putting on weight on a diet of termites.
::::I applaude your curiousity and desire to experiment, but you still need to understand that just because the HL will eat it, does not necessarily mean that you should feed them that prey item consistently.
::::Do you want your HL to live a long or short life?


:::::i have fed my hl alot of different insects. just expirimenting you know. well i know they need ants ther are no if ands or buts.
:::::i also found that termites are a good sorce of food for them. well after finding out that the only ones helthy are termites and ants i have experimented with them only. what i have found is that the hl had grown a faster rate then with ants. i am not trying to get out of ants. the ants are more abundent than termites. i put her on a diet of termites for one month an she dubled in size. i have ben feeding her ants for three months now and she is staying the same size at 32grams. the male was cought not to long ago so he has ben on a diet of ants his whole life, and he only weighs 15grams on avarage and alwase looks thin.




:You handled that very Loren. I thought for a minute you were going to lose it just like I do once in a while. "Charlie" did make some good observations on the weight gain and you pointed out the false asumptions that were drawn. "Charlie" the same weight gains can be seen in HLs if ants are captured from undisturbed habitats. Ants tend to have a better caloric content and a better nutritional value in undisturbed areas and areas that have a very high variety of food items. HLs also show the same benefit from increased varieties of ants in their diet. Do not fall back on a "termite only" diet because that will be disasterous for the HLs. Lester G. Milroy III

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