Too funny.........n/p

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Posted by Jeff on June 28, 2002 at 18:42:04:

In Reply to: FIRST TIME DOCUMENTED...MALE GILA LAYS EGGS................. posted by Kevin Earley on June 26, 2002 at 22:52:55:

: Ok now that I have your attention.(LOL)

: You know the old saying "looks aren't everything"? Well in the case of some gilas this is a very true statement.

: OK this story began last year when I was in search of extra adult male gilas for the breeding colony. I purchased this gila monster from an individual who frequents this forum and is "known" for their gila monster breeding. Now let me stop here for a second. This post is not meant to bash anyone or point a finger so get off that kick now. It is only meant as a learning lesson for others. No names shall be mentioned and the ID of the animal is omitted as well because that's not the point.

: Ok having said that. I purchased this gila (of legal origins in case someone was curious-LOL) but when I received it it didn't "look" like a male to me. Understand that I bought this as a breeder male that had been used previously and this individual was selling it because they had excess males. I had excess females so this was good.

: So I ultrasounded (sonogrammed) it to confirm sex. It was a female. I had asked the seller prior to sale how he "knew" the sex of this gila. He said that he could tell by the body structure as well as its social interaction with other gilas. He also told me that this had been used repeatedly in breeding trials and male combat stimulation. So I thought maybe I was wrong in my conclusion. I decided to wait until the time just prior to winter cool down to check again(above image). I had acquired it after last years breeding season so wouldn't be able to use it in the colony until this year anyway. This next sonogram was taken just after coming out of the winter hibernaculum this spring.

: Once again it "tested" as a female positively this time.

: So I decided to change course with my plans for this animal. An extra female normally isn't a bad thing but I was trying to get males. Now I just made my situation worse (if having another female could be considered worse).

: So this season I introduced him/her to a male and she was more than happy to breed with him repeatedly. And this is the result.

:
: caught in the act

: The moral of the story.........You can never be too sure without some other evidence other than looks and actions (typical ways to sex gilas).

: The only conclusion I can come up with is this breeder, frustrated by it not breeding with a female and producing eggs, labeled it a "poor" male or surplus. When the fact was that it was not the sex they thought it was. His loss was my gain in a sense.

: Once again let me stress I just want people to realize that if you have the access to a sonogram (ultrasound) use it. Luckily I have a friend that is a vet that has one and is eager to "mess with something different than just dogs and cats", but not everyone has this luxury.

: And let me close with this added statement. If it hadn't been for me educating myself with people like Mark Seward and many others I probably would have made the same mistake this individual did. Thanks to all who paved the road.

: BTW- They candled as fertile. Some times you just get lucky.

:
: Kevin

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: : Ok now that I have your attention.(LOL) : : You know the old saying "looks aren't everything"? Well in the case of some gilas this is a very true statement. : : <img src=http://gallery.kingsnake.com/data/675femalegila-med.jpg> : : OK this story began last year when I was in search of extra adult male gilas for the breeding colony. I purchased this gila monster from an individual who frequents this forum and is "known" for their gila monster breeding. Now let me stop here for a second. This post is not meant to bash anyone or point a finger so get off that kick now. It is only meant as a learning lesson for others. No names shall be mentioned and the ID of the animal is omitted as well because that's not the point. : : Ok having said that. I purchased this gila (of legal origins in case someone was curious-LOL) but when I received it it didn't "look" like a male to me. Understand that I bought this as a breeder male that had been used previously and this individual was selling it because they had excess males. I had excess females so this was good. : : <img src=http://gallery.kingsnake.com/data/675sonogram1-med.jpg> : : So I ultrasounded (sonogrammed) it to confirm sex. It was a female. I had asked the seller prior to sale how he "knew" the sex of this gila. He said that he could tell by the body structure as well as its social interaction with other gilas. He also told me that this had been used repeatedly in breeding trials and male combat stimulation. So I thought maybe I was wrong in my conclusion. I decided to wait until the time just prior to winter cool down to check again(above image). I had acquired it after last years breeding season so wouldn't be able to use it in the colony until this year anyway. This next sonogram was taken just after coming out of the winter hibernaculum this spring. : : <img src=http://gallery.kingsnake.com/data/675sonogram2-med.JPG> : : Once again it "tested" as a female positively this time. : : So I decided to change course with my plans for this animal. An extra female normally isn't a bad thing but I was trying to get males. Now I just made my situation worse (if having another female could be considered worse). : : So this season I introduced him/her to a male and she was more than happy to breed with him repeatedly. And this is the result. : : <img src=http://gallery.kingsnake.com/data/675femaleweggs-med.jpg> : : caught in the act : : The moral of the story.........You can never be too sure without some other evidence other than looks and actions (typical ways to sex gilas). : : The only conclusion I can come up with is this breeder, frustrated by it not breeding with a female and producing eggs, labeled it a "poor" male or surplus. When the fact was that it was not the sex they thought it was. His loss was my gain in a sense. : : Once again let me stress I just want people to realize that if you have the access to a sonogram (ultrasound) use it. Luckily I have a friend that is a vet that has one and is eager to "mess with something different than just dogs and cats", but not everyone has this luxury. : : And let me close with this added statement. If it hadn't been for me educating myself with people like Mark Seward and many others I probably would have made the same mistake this individual did. Thanks to all who paved the road. : : BTW- They candled as fertile. Some times you just get lucky. : : : : Kevin

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