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pets tores, mollies and thamine

[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ The Garter and Ribbon Snake Forum ]

Posted by EdK on May 06, 2003 at 21:14:07:

In Reply to: pets tores, mollies and thamine posted by bloomindaedalus on May 06, 2003 at 18:51:14:



:hmmm.... you live in New Jersey right?

Yep but have also had the same results in PA. In a related issue,Pelochelys bibroni has a horrible survival rate as a hatchling (under six months) until necropsies were done on the animals that had died which were shown to have high copper levels. The copper was traced back to the feeder fish tanks at the local pet stores. After this if the feeders are taken from tanks that have not used copper these turtles will do well. (From Chris McCord).

"Guess i won't buy fish there (he he) Its pretty standard in the aquarium world now to do partial water changes at regular intervals until the chemical should be goneif treatments of any kind are used and most copper based stuff is avoided even at the worst places. (this is my anecdotal evidence from working in the trade(as i recall you have) and talking to lots of retailers and some wholesalers in Maryland, New York, Florida and Arizona)but i guess it could still happen."

I've worked in places where the feeder fish tanks did not have water changes done on them for a year or more occasionally. They were just topped up on the theory that all of the water removed in selling the fish counted towards the water change (I did not stay long there).

:Mollies are orginally brackish as i recall but they are tremendously hardy and acclimate well to varying degrees of water hardness and acidity as well as salinity. I don't think they are much less fatty than goldfish but i am sure we can find documentation somewhere.

Sailfin mollies can be collected from the surf all the way up the coast to I believe South Carolina. As these are closely related to the "normal" molly I doubt there are significant differences in the fats.
The issue is not in the amount of fat the fish has it is actully in the types of fats the fish has. there are apparently a poor ratio of saturated fats to unsaturated in goldfish which is the real problem (I suspect more of an issue with fish and anurans than snakes) but a couple of Zoos discussed having poor success with baby matas on a strict diet of goldfish that did noit reoccure when livebearers were substituted.


::Many stores either minimally feed or do not feed all of the fish in stock depending upon the expected turnover rate as this keeps the water cleaner and reduces cost.

:this seems like nonesense to me. Specialty feeder and animal drugged for transport are foten not fed for a day but that's about it. even the "idiots" feed their fish. I was reffering only to large feeder tanks.
::"All fish are not fed for at least 48 hours prior to shipping and are usually not fed until...."
:This is also not always true. It may have been the standard long ago but now maerican fish farms that i have worked with do not observe it.

What used to be the largest pet store on the east coast (Martin's Aquarium, now closed) only fed specific high dollar fish on a regular basis, common items such as livebearers, neons ect were often not fed for days. This has also occured in some of the newer large petstores in the Philadelphia area (as recently as six months ago from personal observations). I had to feed the baby angels on the sly to reduce mortality. If I got caught I had to reimburse the store for the food.

:"As many fish originate in Singapore this can mean that the fish has not been fed for four to five days upon recipt while more locally produced fish such as goldfish may have been without food for at least 48 hours (Depending upon time at distributer-> wholsaler-> retailer-> you). "

:This i can't comment on but it seems plausible.

::If concerns about starvation exist then the fish should be held for at least 48 hours and fed a good diet to replace lost fats and protiens.

:I think much longer is better. For those of you with large collections, i recommend keeping "new feeders" for at least a few weeks. It will he;p sort out weak from strong stock and "fatten up" your fish (with essential nuitrients as well as fats)

This was the minimal time I would recommend.

::"Sounds like Fundulus species."
:No. I had used fundulus olivaceus for a while but found they couldn't adjust to the warmer temps i wanted to use as well (well not as consistently, statistically speaking) . I have been at this for aw hile and this new species (they are often mixed in with other species at the bait stores) seems termperature tolerant. One day i'll get a pic up to the killifish people.

Of which I am one off and on. There are a lot of Fundulus species and if you are on the Eastern Seaboard north of Georgia, Alabama and Florida these should be all of the available genus if your feeders are from local suppliers. If the supplier is from Florida then all bets are off and you could even be getting Jordanella or Lucania.

:glad you're still out there helping people.

I try even if I seem a little cranky ;)
I actually stopped by here to see if anyone was bragging about any baby fitchi as I need a male.



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