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Posted by franklin edwards on May 05, 2003 at 19:40:58:
In Reply to: Appropriate protein and fat levels in feeder mice... posted by CowBoyWay on May 05, 2003 at 10:22:01:
:So what are appropriate protein and fat levels in feeder mice?
:One should probably keep an eye those fat and protein levels...
:Not all feeder mice are necessarily raised correctly to be reptile food...Choose ones frozen mousee supplier carefully.
:What do they (claim to) feed?
:The feeding of a higher fat diet (greater than about 9%) to feeder mice can be responsible for some serious problems to occur in the snakes that the mice are fed to. One should watch those oily, high fat & protein, junk seed snacks...your mice too.
:A 15 - 20% protein level with <5 to 6% fat ideally, to as much as 9% overall fat (with seed snacks, if you will) in the diet for rodent breeding colonies will result in a premium quality, properly fed, lean and mean,feeder mouse. imho.
:Higher protein levels can damage the rodents, kidneys, liver...(resulting in a sick, toxin built up mice).
:Anything higher than these number's are wasteful and will affect the health of both the Rodent & Snake feeding on the rodent.
:Food dyes can also be dangerous to reptiles when fed rodents raised on a food dye added type dog foods.
:The lower the meat and bone meal is on the ingredient list, the more grain it contains, the better overall health wise it is for the feeder rodent, not for ones favorite pet canine though.
:If its good food for your mice, it's probably bad for your dog and if it’s good for your dog to eat, it's bad (too rich) for your mice.
:You'll need two different qualities/ brands.
:Safeway, a U.S. Grocery store chain, their house brand of "Tasty Nuggets dog food" is mentioned by some U.S.rodent breeders , as a good choice for an inexpensive, cereal grains based, no food dye type of "nuggie" that is commonly blended with mousee lab block to diversify the mousee's diet a wee bit. Or even fed solely.
:Look for "for all life stages" dog food..
:The nutritional adequacy statement on the package will state for which life stage(s) the product is suitable, such as "for maintenance," or "for growth."
:A product intended "for all life stages" meets the more stringent nutritional needs for growth and reproduction.
: A maintenance ration will meet the needs of an adult, non-reproducing dog or cat of normal activity, but may not be sufficient for a growing, reproducing, or hard-working animal.
:Occasionally a product may be labeled for a more specific use or life stage, such as "senior" or for a specific size or breed.
:However, there is little information as to the true dietary needs of these more specific uses, and no rules governing these types of statements have been established. Thus, a "senior" diet must meet the requirements for adult maintenance, but no more.
:About Cereal Grains…
:When cereal grains, such as corn or wheat, are combined with another protein source, such as meat or soy, to help provide a complete balance of amino acids.
:For example, soybean meal and corn complement each other perfectly because the amino acids deficient in one is present in the other...
:All ingredients are required to be listed in order of predominance by weight.
:The weights of ingredients are determined as they are added in the formulation, including their inherent water content.
:This latter fact is important when evaluating relative quantity claims, especially when ingredients of different moisture contents are compared.
:For example, one pet food may list "meat" as its first ingredient, and "corn" as its second.
:The manufacturer doesn't hesitate to point out that its competitor lists "corn" first ("meat meal" is second), suggesting the competitor's product has less animal-source protein than its own.
:However, meat is very high in moisture (approximately 75% water). On the other hand, water and fat are removed from meat meal, so it is only 10% moisture (what's left is mostly protein and minerals).
:If we could compare both products on a dry matter basis (mathematically "remove" the water from both ingredients), one could see that the second product had more animal source protein from meat meal than the first product had from meat, even though the ingredient list suggests otherwise...
:Be sure to read the labels, and look for a cheapo "All life stage " without food dyes. Imho.