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Posted by Richard Mastenbroek on November 05, 2002 at 12:56:22:
In Reply to: Re: Well Said Wolfgang....more posted by Scott Eipper on November 02, 2002 at 19:05:09:
I was present when that photo was taken (I probably took it..I hate Ray's Camera..).
:The Taipans in that pit where mine, Fred Rossignoil's and a couple that were loaned to Fred for the display.
:To give you a rough Idea of what you are talking about...if you don't "head" Taipans...all the time they do become quiet. I am sure the one yu played/worked with at Tanunda were a bit more nervous, but by the same token if you were grabbed by the neck and had your mouth forced onto a piece of latex most of the time you were handled would you get pis**d off? I would.
Scott I didn't wanna give a atack on your snakes. I have no doubts that you take good care for them. The thing is Ray described a new subspecies of the coastal taipan in several posts I asked him for pictures of these animals and the next thing we see is a picture of Ray free handling taipans (normal coastals). Your snakes can be tame between but I put question marks behind that ???? because I don't believe in tame snakes. At venom supplies were the tais not that bad they are a bit more nervous but this is understandible. As you maybe now do I also have taipans in my collection Ozzy and PNG ones. Some of them are pretty docile while others a true freaks of nature. This is probably because they hardly be handled as i think that snakes or better said all reptiles are like keeping a fish look at them but don't touch when there is no need for.
:Freehandling is something that I am in two minds about..yes if someone (a child for instance) sees you do it they may try to emulate the handler and maybe gets a bite.
:This could due to the ignorance of that child in the sense that he/she cannot understand that some snakes are dangerous.
:By the same token if these children cannot understand that some snakes are dangerous and that only certain species can be held this way how can they be expected to tell the difference between a Taipan and a children's Python.
As most people know do I not support free handling venomous snakes. As people ant to i don't mind. I do mind that people post picture of them doing that on the internet. Pictures of free handling snakes leads us to people that like to do the same but are scared to do this with a hot snake and buy a venomoid instead. Others are stuppid enough to try and get nailed and more examples can be given.
:I never here of a handler getting in trouble (what if someone sees you..type cr@p) if he posts a pic of him free handling his pet corn or Boa?
Corns and boas are snakes that not venomous and if people want6 to handle them I can understand but as for venomous snakes do I not support the handling of any reptile as this gives in 90% of the case stress for the animal in question if you notice it or not. Reptiles are pets for the eye not for the hands if we want a pet for in our hands we need to keep a cat or a dog. But again this is my opinion.
:My snakes are all in very good condition and health they are not drugged, cooled etc. Next time you are over here (in Australia) I invite you to see for yourself.If I find the time and the money to visit Oz again I will definally contact you to visit your collection Scott no worries :-) As I said before I have no doubts in your caring for your snakes. Your a serious amateur herpetologist and that you think different in some things in compare to me does not say that your snakes are not cared for.
:Not all of my snakes can be free handled either..I have an Inland that is bonkers, a Collett's that is always in food mode a Hill death Adder that is loopy as hell and 4 Eastern Browns that would test just about anyones handlin skill.
I think I can free handle 90% of the snakes I own but do not try it. I use the Midwest gloves on small specimens like semi-juveniles, adders, PNG Kingbrowns, kraits and some more species that are not capable to shew on the glove but only strike till nowonly the adders strike at the gloves, the rest doesn't mind to be handled like that.
:This is not personal attack on anyone, i just felt I needed to clear up a few things.
No worries, this why we have a forum to discuss things have debats friendly and sometimes unfriendly. I think this is only good because everyone has different toughts and different methods.
With Best Regards,