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A few thoughts on these snakes...............

[ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ The Bull, Pine, and Gopher Snake Forum ]

Posted by Fred Albury on March 09, 2003 at 11:39:01:

In Reply to: Re: Hey fred and shannon now what ..please read posted by Dre on March 09, 2003 at 09:55:56:

::These three are siblings. The parents were both the result of Ginter breeding a Kingsville red bull to a Stillwater hypo, so these are possible het hypo (with the Stillwater version). The first female has some promise for turning out pretty nice. Although not very red, the second female is still very beautiful in my opinion.

::First female. Everytime I look at this photo, these lyrics pop into my head for some
::"Baby blue was the color of her eyes
::Baby blue like the Colorado skies
::Like a breath of spring she came and left
::And I still don't know why so
::Here's to you and whoever holds my Baby Blue tonight"
::Second female.



:I mention a while back about stillwater hypo x amelanistic and everybody jumped on me like i'm I said something wrong .I geuss when a big breeder doing it it's cool huh. Now look the big boys are cross stillwaters with other than stillwaters WOW . I'm done ranting least for now lol.
:later Dre'

I am glad to say that I know John Ginter, and have been blessed to be at his house and see his collection. I also, after many years of sitting on the fence, purchased a pair of *pure* STILLWATER HYPOS that he produced. I'm not going to say negative things because Ginter crossed these to strengthen the limited gene pool and bloodline. I will say that he is at least honestly representing them as such. Only problem comes in when people get ahold of the ofspring, will they be as honest. I dont know.

Frankly,I know for a fact that John Ginter went to extreme measures to not cross many snakes in his collection all these years.Do I think it is *right* because as "Big breeder" does it(Crossing) Not necessarily...but K.J. makes a valid point and that being the tiny gene pool and the inherent problems that come with it.I've often wondered what problems would arise when you have such a tiny group of locale animals to work with and how long the defects would take to pop up.
We have had this discussion before, and I will say this, that often, once the crosses get put on the market, bred and THEIR subsequent offspring get put up for sale, a complete loss of control occurs and then you dont know what your getting, which means you have to trust the seller. No big problem if your buying from Ginter,K.J, John Cherry or anyone else here that
has a vested interest in their reputation being ruined. But buying crosses from an unknown party,I dont know,I probably wouldnt.

Having said all that, they are pretty snakes, and K.J. made an excellent point, at least they are not crosses between Bulls and Gophers, or Bulls and Pines, or bulls and black ratsnakes.As far as amelxstillwater crosses done years ago,I wouldnt have recommended it,still dont,but the gene pool theology make sense(Thanks K.J.) In this day of people crossing All type of Pits together just to produce a prettier snake or an unusual one, to the point you dont even know what you are buying unless you buy from individuals whose business it is to not deceive you and ruin their rep, I dont thinkthat someone outcrossing because of a health risk to his breeding stock loms on the horizon. Still a cross, but the motive is at least good.

Take care,

Fred Albury
Aztec Reptiles

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