Tylan

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Posted by Jeff Ronne / The Boaphile on March 31, 2002 at 08:26:32:

In Reply to: for jeff ronne. RI cures. more posted by JIMI on March 31, 2002 at 03:24:10:

Your lucky I saw this. I haven't looked at the Forum here for about two months. Too many projects... too little of me to get everything done. Far better to send an email or a phone call to try get in touch with me. Anyhow here it is...

Here is something I had written on it a couple years ago. Let me know if it helps!

Good luck!

Jeff

Here was the previously written piece:

Hey!

Here we are. I mean, here I am with the first installment of:

"The Boaphile Internet News"!!

This may not be very exciting but this may be the most important E-mail
I send via this little newsletter thing. Anyhow here goes!

I am not a Dr. I am barely even literate as my writings will attest. I
am not a Vet or even a Vet Tech. I didn't even take Chemistry in high
school (schedule conflict). Loved science and was good at it but
absolutely no training or expertise in the field, but I am sharing my
experience here and now. I am not recommending you follow this but am
merely relaying what I have observed. There are laws I think against
giving medical advise without a license. Maybe even regarding Boa
medicine. I am unlicensed and only retelling what has occurred here.

As many of you know, I breed Boas. That's is, just Boas. I bred Ball
Pythons once but that was really an accident. I am breeding a lot of
Boas. I mean, a LOT of Boas. Every year I end up with a few Boas, which
at the end of breeding season, have respiratory problems or in general
get run down as a result of going through the stress of the long
breeding season which, in Boas lasts from 2-5 or even up to 6 months. I
have usually just watched these stressed Boas for a while keeping them
slightly warmer than usual (85 degrees F or so) until the animal resumed
vigorous feeding and returns to normal. Most snap out of it and take off
again. However, a handful may require more TLC. I have used a number of
anti- biotics with very limited success but what choice do we have but
to try to do our best to take proper care of the animals we are
entrusted for. I have used Amakacin, Baytril, Trimethoprim sulfa and
Fortaz all with limited success. Very limited indeed. Health problems
occasionally occur out of the blue at any time of the year in addition
to the post
breeding season. If the problem is so advanced as to be an obvious
respiratory problem, it is probably quite severe and experience has
taught me I have a really slim chance of curing the problem. I have had
these animals to a good reptile vet for bacterial cultures and the
recommended drug has been Amakacin or Baytril. These, in my experience
in Boa Constrictors, have been very ineffective in bringing the animals
around. Whether or not they knocked down the bacterial problem is to me
irrelevant if the animal has "lost the will to live". Bottom line I want
the animal to spring back and do well. They seem to get so run down and
just give up.

I have heard for years of the existence of a drug called "Tylan" or
Tylosin which has been used in Burmese for chronic respiratory problems.
I have heard the Burms, in some cases have been treated for months on
end with this dope with good results in warding off these respiratory
problems. I figured I would give it a try. I spoke with a large Python
guy who said he gave 50 mg/kg of this drug every three days long term
with excellent results. I decided to give it a whirl. Tylan is used in
swine and cattle for a number of problems and I purchased this over the
counter at a local feed store in a bottle, big enough to treat a herd of
cattle along with a few sick Boas. I injected the Tylan sub q which
means just under the skin. This was repeated three more times waiting
three days between each injection. Normal precautions were taken with
alcohol and cotton balls. The results were UNBOALIEVABLE!

One of the Boas I treated had had a chronic respiratory problem for
about three years. This Boa was given to me by a friend of mine who was
going to put her to sleep because he could not clear this up and he did
not want his other animals to get this problem. She was dripping mucus
from her mouth in such large quantities that she fogged up her cage
glass in a matter of days after cleaning. She went into a shed and after
shedding until now some 8 months later there has been absolutely no
cold, no snot, nothing. She has been doing fantastic as have all the
other animals I treated at that time. I had a particularly bad year last
year and 11 animals with various and sundry problems which I treated
with Tylan with fantastic results. Normally most of these animals would
have died. They are wonderful!

Sent a preliminary copy to Dave & Tracy Barker. Dave was nice enough to
sent the following response along with some additional helpful
information:

" Hi Jeff, congrats on Volume 1, Issue 1 of the B.I.N. It is informative
and interesting. Tylan was considered a wonder drug back in the mid
1970s. It cured many things that chloromycetin (our other wonder-drug
back then) wouldn't touch, plus we could buy it without a prescription.
It is very safe (I'm sure this isn't true, but I don't think one can
over-dose it, at least I've seen it used very carelessly with no visible
bad effects.) It's usually administered daily for two weeks, but I say
go with what works. The thing about it is that it has little or no
effect on gram-negative bacteria, which is the general type of bacteria
that most-often causes disease in reptiles. But Tylan is one of few
drugs that effectively treats a little-known and poorly understood group
of organisms called micoplasms. Micoplasms are known to occasionally
cause disease. They are difficult
to culture and you have to specifically request that a culture be run
for micoplasms, as they grow more slowly than bacteria. Most antibiotics
have no effect on micoplasms. Most of the time Tylan is ineffective to
use as a hit-or-miss antibiotic. But when it works, it can be dramatic.
It would be my guess that the problems you've been seeing in your boa
colony are caused by micoplasms. Just be aware that when Tylan doesn't
work, it may be time to pull out the amikacin.

Dave Barker
vpi@gvtc.com"

Perhaps Boas in particular or at least Boas here at my place have been
particularly vulnerable to these microplasms. Perhaps gram negative
bacteria is not so common in Boa constrictors. Who knows? I just know I
am very happy to have heard about and tried Tylan which has been the
"wonder drug" for my Boas coming out of the breeding season along with
the stresses the breeding season brings.

Jeff

The Boaphile's little web page

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Comments:
: Your lucky I saw this. I haven't looked at the Forum here for about two months. Too many projects... too little of me to get everything done. Far better to send an email or a phone call to try get in touch with me. Anyhow here it is... : Here is something I had written on it a couple years ago. Let me know if it helps! : Good luck! : Jeff : Here was the previously written piece: : Hey! : Here we are. I mean, here I am with the first installment of: : "The Boaphile Internet News"!! : This may not be very exciting but this may be the most important E-mail : I send via this little newsletter thing. Anyhow here goes! : I am not a Dr. I am barely even literate as my writings will attest. I : am not a Vet or even a Vet Tech. I didn't even take Chemistry in high : school (schedule conflict). Loved science and was good at it but : absolutely no training or expertise in the field, but I am sharing my : experience here and now. I am not recommending you follow this but am : merely relaying what I have observed. There are laws I think against : giving medical advise without a license. Maybe even regarding Boa : medicine. I am unlicensed and only retelling what has occurred here. : As many of you know, I breed Boas. That's is, just Boas. I bred Ball : Pythons once but that was really an accident. I am breeding a lot of : Boas. I mean, a LOT of Boas. Every year I end up with a few Boas, which : at the end of breeding season, have respiratory problems or in general : get run down as a result of going through the stress of the long : breeding season which, in Boas lasts from 2-5 or even up to 6 months. I : have usually just watched these stressed Boas for a while keeping them : slightly warmer than usual (85 degrees F or so) until the animal resumed : vigorous feeding and returns to normal. Most snap out of it and take off : again. However, a handful may require more TLC. I have used a number of : anti- biotics with very limited success but what choice do we have but : to try to do our best to take proper care of the animals we are : entrusted for. I have used Amakacin, Baytril, Trimethoprim sulfa and : Fortaz all with limited success. Very limited indeed. Health problems : occasionally occur out of the blue at any time of the year in addition : to the post : breeding season. If the problem is so advanced as to be an obvious : respiratory problem, it is probably quite severe and experience has : taught me I have a really slim chance of curing the problem. I have had : these animals to a good reptile vet for bacterial cultures and the : recommended drug has been Amakacin or Baytril. These, in my experience : in Boa Constrictors, have been very ineffective in bringing the animals : around. Whether or not they knocked down the bacterial problem is to me : irrelevant if the animal has "lost the will to live". Bottom line I want : the animal to spring back and do well. They seem to get so run down and : just give up. : I have heard for years of the existence of a drug called "Tylan" or : Tylosin which has been used in Burmese for chronic respiratory problems. : I have heard the Burms, in some cases have been treated for months on : end with this dope with good results in warding off these respiratory : problems. I figured I would give it a try. I spoke with a large Python : guy who said he gave 50 mg/kg of this drug every three days long term : with excellent results. I decided to give it a whirl. Tylan is used in : swine and cattle for a number of problems and I purchased this over the : counter at a local feed store in a bottle, big enough to treat a herd of : cattle along with a few sick Boas. I injected the Tylan sub q which : means just under the skin. This was repeated three more times waiting : three days between each injection. Normal precautions were taken with : alcohol and cotton balls. The results were UNBOALIEVABLE! : One of the Boas I treated had had a chronic respiratory problem for : about three years. This Boa was given to me by a friend of mine who was : going to put her to sleep because he could not clear this up and he did : not want his other animals to get this problem. She was dripping mucus : from her mouth in such large quantities that she fogged up her cage : glass in a matter of days after cleaning. She went into a shed and after : shedding until now some 8 months later there has been absolutely no : cold, no snot, nothing. She has been doing fantastic as have all the : other animals I treated at that time. I had a particularly bad year last : year and 11 animals with various and sundry problems which I treated : with Tylan with fantastic results. Normally most of these animals would : have died. They are wonderful! : Sent a preliminary copy to Dave & Tracy Barker. Dave was nice enough to : sent the following response along with some additional helpful : information: : " Hi Jeff, congrats on Volume 1, Issue 1 of the B.I.N. It is informative : and interesting. Tylan was considered a wonder drug back in the mid : 1970s. It cured many things that chloromycetin (our other wonder-drug : back then) wouldn't touch, plus we could buy it without a prescription. : It is very safe (I'm sure this isn't true, but I don't think one can : over-dose it, at least I've seen it used very carelessly with no visible : bad effects.) It's usually administered daily for two weeks, but I say : go with what works. The thing about it is that it has little or no : effect on gram-negative bacteria, which is the general type of bacteria : that most-often causes disease in reptiles. But Tylan is one of few : drugs that effectively treats a little-known and poorly understood group : of organisms called micoplasms. Micoplasms are known to occasionally : cause disease. They are difficult : to culture and you have to specifically request that a culture be run : for micoplasms, as they grow more slowly than bacteria. Most antibiotics : have no effect on micoplasms. Most of the time Tylan is ineffective to : use as a hit-or-miss antibiotic. But when it works, it can be dramatic. : It would be my guess that the problems you've been seeing in your boa : colony are caused by micoplasms. Just be aware that when Tylan doesn't : work, it may be time to pull out the amikacin. : Dave Barker : vpi@gvtc.com" : Perhaps Boas in particular or at least Boas here at my place have been : particularly vulnerable to these microplasms. Perhaps gram negative : bacteria is not so common in Boa constrictors. Who knows? I just know I : am very happy to have heard about and tried Tylan which has been the : "wonder drug" for my Boas coming out of the breeding season along with : the stresses the breeding season brings. : : Jeff

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